Part #2 of George Burdi interview. Part #1 can be found from:
https://veriyhteys14.blogspot.com/2017/12/george-burdi-exclusive-interview-pt-1.html
Already an early issue (5/1995) of Resistance magazine had a report on black metal and the issue 7 (1996) included an interview with Graveland. What do you like black metal as European music? What about NSBM?
I really can’t say too much about black metal, as the more extreme and poorly produced varieties of it are impenetrable to my ears and even when well produced and written just not my cup of tea. I understand that the pro white music movement went heavily in that direction but my belief is that was overindulgence and a strategic mistake.
Ueberfolk cd appeared under the band name Rahowa that means Racial Holy War. What does Rahowa mean to you as a concept at this moment? Or is it completely irrelevant to you? Anyhow, Muslims have the Lesser Jihad and the Greater Jihad, the first of which refers to a physical war against infidels while the latter is understood as an intrinsic spiritual fight. Can this distinction also apply to the modern Rahowa concept?
Racial holy war used to be something I was convinced was coming on the physical plane, like a civil war along the lines of race. I don’t see that happening. The Americans will be in a long-term stalemate with possible future racial separation occurring, but I don’t see a hot war with live bullets. This difference in opinion is critical to everything one does next, because if there is no hot civil war coming in America, then this will be a long drawn out conflict that is won by having families, building communities, and affecting the culture through the dissemination of ideas.
Europe has become a very different situation rather quickly. I am convinced that ISIS must have thousands of sleeper cells in Europe, because if they do not, they are total strategic morons. If and when to activate those cells is another question, but only a fool wouldn’t believe they’re ready. Of course Islam is not a race, but a religion, but it does have a racial element to it, in that most of its followers are non-white. So whereas in my youth I would have seen America headed for race war, it is now more likely to be Europe, I’m afraid. And unlike in my youth, I dread this future, I do not embrace it, I hope that I am wrong.
The idea of the Greater Jihad and the Lesser Jihad is that when one has done the spiritual work on themselves, and conquered oneself in a transcendent way, then one has emerged victorious from the inner spiritual war, ready to fight any enemy, because one moves with divine inspiration in every stride. This is the Greater Jihad. The Lesser Jihad is the mere physical conflict defeating infidels, who in their godless state, mastered by their animal natures, are soft and easy to conquer.
In the 1990’s skinhead movement your philosophical thinking and musical taste were ahead of time. Which philosophers and music makers inspired you then and who today?
I began my education with Nietzsche, Spengler, Yockey, and others. I was reading Nietzsche from age 16, and read all of his books before the age of 20. Later I would come to study Julius Evola, and to a lesser extent, Rene Guenon. Musically I have always had a very broad selection of musical tastes; I really listen to it all. If a song is good I don’t care what genre it is, but I’m not interested in anything with degenerate lyrics. Classical music and opera was always my biggest musical influence. I grew up on Zeppelin and The Beatles.
Based on your recent statements, you could be considered as Traditionalist and Identitarian. Is this a correct estimation?
I am foremost a Traditionalist. Thousands of years of history have led us to this point in time. We are primarily formed by the momentum of the past, as the old knowledge is what sustained man through countless challenges to his existence. I support the Identitarian movement because it is fundamentally Traditionalist, it recognizes the unique expression of form, culture, and language that is in danger of being swept away in a tide of modernity. This is also a European populist movement that recognizes the importance of race but is not obsessed with it.
In the 1990s Julius Evola was not well-known because at that time only a few of his books had been translated into English. Fortunately, the situation is now completely different. What interests you in Evola’s philosophy?
Yes, in 1995 Evola’s magnum opus Revolt Against the Modern World was released in English, his first English language release. So we have not had much time for his ideas to become widely known. He is decidedly European, but has great respect for the traditions of other peoples and cultures. He was a multi-linguist and could read his source material in many languages. There is much to love about Evola’s writings, but foremost would be his impartial approach to diverse schools of thought, which he manages to tie together with a golden thread that unites esoteric teachings.
However, you are hardly interested in Savitri Devi and Miguel Serrano anymore?
I recently read Devi’s “Long Whiskers and the Two-Legged Goddess” and am currently reading Don Miguel’s “NOS – The Book of the Resurrection”, so it is not accurate to say that I am not interested. However, both writers lived in parts of the world considered non-white, and had many non-white friends and allies, and I find their seeking of a spiritual answer to be. Devi’s writings on animal rights are when she is at her best, her impeachment of modern man. Don Miguel was a giant of a thinker, a personal friend of Carl Jung, an aristocratic and erudite, worldly man.
In the recent years, Alt-Right and Richard Spencer have received a lot of publicity. What do you think about Alt-Right phenomenon and Mr. Spencer?
First of all, standing up for issues facing people of European descent is probably the most personally destructive action you can take. Just standing up and saying “it’s okay to be white” can bring such a firestorm that your life can change. In such a climate, people of European descent are lucky to have anyone taking the heat to stand up and make a statement. So with that in mind, here is my critique: Richard Spencer seems too comfortable, too happy to hear his own pontifications to fully grasp the moment. To be successful, he needs to make a leap from casual philosopher to professional politician. It’s not an easy task, because without the hard knocks and experiential wisdom, how can such a young man know what to say, or what to do? I was no better than he, it’s just hard to think through every scenario, and be prepared so that all action is not a reaction. My belief is that Mr. Spencer is lacking the spiritual depth and full knowledge of Tradition to properly lead this fight. However, he could grow into that role, but living in the spotlight can create bigger problems for him.
As for the Alt-Right, the “Alt” part is now gone from it. The MSM has successfully characterized it as a “white nationalist” movement, with the assistance of Spencer and other Alt-Right leaders who were happy to wear that badge. But the dynamic nature of the original Alt-Right idea was that it was the non-neocon right wing, a true right, and included everyone that wasn’t an establishment Republican neoconservative type. It should have remained a loosely-defined thing, inclusive of everyone on the right that isn’t establishment neocon. But instead, Spencer and others played into the hands of the MSM, with his “Hail Trump!” moment and then repeatedly and implicitly stating that “Alt-Right” always means whites addressing white survival, instead of keeping it vague and inclusive. And so, the divide and conquer begins, which they unwittingly assisted.
What about European New Right, especially GRECE and its French thinkers such as Alain de Benoist? Are they familiar to North American movement and have their analyzes any value to Americans?
The writings of de Benoist are not well known to Americans. His thinking is very profound and I find much that I agree with in his writings. He also de-emphasizes the view of biological racism: “Racism is a theory that postulates, either that qualitative inequalities exist among the races such that one can distinguish generally ‘superior’ and ‘inferior’ races, or that the value of an individual is defined entirely by his or her racial belonging, or again that race constitutes the central determining factor in human history. These three postulates may be held together or separately. All three of them are false.”
Even if Europeans were to be replaced by individuals from other cultures and races that were IQ-tested to be more intelligent than the people being replaced, that is still unacceptable. How can the eradication of the organic cultural diversity of Europe be justified even when the people are a theoretical upgrade? This is why I advocate to people not to make this about race, race realism, IQ, education, etc. This is a battle for the cultural survival of the indigenous people of Europe. And no matter what the “replacement people” are like in terms of quality, it is still a disaster, plain and simple.
What do you think of European nationalist grass root movements, and I do not mean here right-wing populists, but Casa Pound, Identitarian Movement, etc.?
I always believed that when the common man became truly affected by mass immigration – not alarmed about concerns for the future, or about aesthetics, or even just xenophobia – but affected deeply, where his very way of life became threatened, that only then real movements would emerge. CasaPound and the Identitarian Movements are the real movement. Virtually everything else heretofore was cursed with the same nihilistic modernity as the society it was attempting to reject. The old movement was a subculture based around a shared belief that the future is doomed and we have no place in it. That’s a very punk rock spirit, the whole “fuck the world” mentality. But this new movement is comprised instead with people that desire to live, demand to live, and have a place in the future.
Is there a big difference between American and European white movements?
The American white movement is far more reactionary than the European counterpart. It defines itself by what it opposes, instead of the essence of what it is. Decades of racial conflict and strife brought about by the disastrous decision to import African slaves have indelibly stained the American psyche and drained huge amounts of the energy of the nation into the sewer of history. Today’s American white movement is slowly escaping those old pathologies, but is still far too reactive and needs to find its own voice and essence. The European people are the indigenous people of Europe. White people have a problem convincing the South Africans or the American Indians that they have a legitimate claim to those lands. But Europe? Can any serious person argue that Europe should not be for the Europeans? This is the fundamental difference. Severed from our ancestral home continent, we are more wayward in the modern world. We are further away, our compass is broken. And so, the North American white movement expresses itself as part of a modern caste system where the adherent feels better about himself in relation to other races he deems inferior, rather than placing at the forefront of his mind an image of his own perfected state at the end of history. In pagan times and in Hinduism (one in the same thing) we would see the Nietzschean god-man as the objective. This is the Luciferian or Promethean nature, bringing the light of the gods down to Earth, and giving this light of wisdom and knowledge to the world. The god or goddess was an archetype of a divine perfected expression of life, to which the adherent would strive to emulate and embody the qualities of, according to his or her nature.
What are the stumbling blocks and the biggest problems with white movements?
The biggest problem with white movements is that we are living in a dark age. We are a fallen people. We shed the veil of Christianity but we weren’t prepared for the wayward freedom and nihilism that would ensue. Trying to build a movement out of broken people is impossible. There can be no political victory that isn’t based upon a victory of a higher kind: the building of a better man, possessing a Nietzschean ethic. Julius Evola said “one must only acknowledge the truth of a fragmented human being, who has come to identify existence itself with its lowest and most irrational levels, with its darkest and most senseless expressions, wallowing in a sort of self-sadism.” This age in which we live is soul-destroying, but when faced with a rampaging tiger, sometimes the only safe place is riding on the tiger’s back! This means that one channels the frenetic and destructive energies of the modern world, finding purpose and meaning where others find only despair, all the while remaining safely out of reach of the tiger.
Donald Trump is defined more for how he is being attacked incessantly by the mainstream media then by anything he has done. I can’t help but believe that there is a small group of American patriots in military and intelligence circles that helped to put Trump in power, and that Trump knew going into this that he would be attacked, but that there was a segment of the deep state apparatus that was behind him. Because without that kind of support, I can’t see one man – billionaire or not – subjecting himself to this type of incessant abuse. But just because there is a small renegade element supporting Trump, does not mean that 90% of the deep state is not opposed to him. The question is, is Trump just a pressure-valve meant to placate the white majority, or is he the real deal but just up against too much opposition?
As for Justin Trudeau, the social justice warrior, he is the perfect Canadian Prime Minister! He masterfully embodies the zeitgeist of the modern liberal progressive, brilliantly virtue signalling at every opportunity. As such, he represents the pendulum swinging to its furthest leftward point.
What do you think about multiculturalism and how should people react to it?
The idea of multiculturalism is only being promoted in Western (white) countries. More diversity always means less white people. The organic idea of the nation-state is a group of people that share a culture, or very similar cultures, to bond together to form a system that is an extension of that culture. So, there can be no enduring concept of multiculturalism. It can only exist temporarily until it levels everything into a new rootless and inorganic mix. All of the countries that the new migrants come from will still retain its cultural primacy; it is only the people of European descent that will be left without a homeland.
You have an Indian wife. Does not this contradict the fact that you support ethnic separatism and resist the multicultural policy of the Globalists?
My wife and I divorced in 2005, but we remain good friends and have written some music together as recently as last year, but your question is a good one, and I will answer it as plainly as possible. Ethnic separatism for Europe is absolutely necessary, because without living space, a people and a culture cannot exist. There are hundreds of unique, centuries-old micro-cultures in Europe, with customs, language, and history. They cannot survive this new wave of humanity flooding its borders. In North America, however, only a complete breakdown of society could produce ethnic nationalism, which is never something you want to see because of mass upheaval and bloodshed, so it’s something that if it does ever happen will be a discussion if things fall apart. I am also not convinced that a white city-state in the U.S. would ultimately be a good thing for white people anyway. Take one look at the economic isolation in the South African white ghettos, and you’ll see that once you group up in one area, you become an easier target, because the system can surround and attack that entity from the outside, whilst maintaining normal life for everyone else. For these reasons, and others, I advocate civic nationalism outside of Europe and advise North American ethnic nationalists to make this compromise. Nothing can change the cultural undertone of America in the same way as people of all races coming together to recognize the common ground of anti-globalist, anti-Marxist positions. Most people from other races want to maintain their own ethnic/cultural identity too. This doesn’t mean that the ethnic nationalist can’t still promote their agenda and ideas, but it does mean that this romanticized idea is seen as an “in emergency, break glass” option.
As for my East Indian, Brahmin caste, fair-skinned, “brown Aryan” ex-wife, she was the perfect companion for me during the years we were together. We spent this time reading books from the world of Tradition and exploring Aryan history. I am especially grateful to her and her family for the “missing Hindu wisdom” they imparted. Her father was a very unique spiritual teacher, but he died a couple of years ago. Ultimately both she and I outgrew each other as husband and wife, but as I said we remain good friends 12 years later.
What do you think of the mainstream culture, the market economy and the globalism – all of this present western way of life?
The modern world, with its frenetic race to produce and consume, is blotting out everything that made humanity wonderful. Everyone who participates in it is losing. I advocate completely detaching yourself from this debacle, move to the country, disconnect your television, don’t read the news. This society is only sustained by intoxication; nothing healthy and lasting can be born from it. Reject it all.
In Western society there has been lot of talk for the need of higher education. However, modern university seems to be just a place for Marxist indoctrination. How do you feel about university education?
I attended University for one year back in 1990, and even then it was a Marxist hotbed, intolerant of diversity of opinion and freedom of speech. I was practically run off campus, with “Unwanted: Dead or Alive” posters with my face up around campus. In the last three decades, the situation has intensified. Today if you have a dissenting voice you are attacked with extreme hostility. As such, there is no purpose to attending such institutions, unless one is learning a profession such as doctor, lawyer, accountant, etc. The social sciences are a total waste of time and money. Any parent that sends their son or daughter to these institutions is going to infect them with a mind-virus in the process. Instead, buy the complete works of Julius Evola and spend five years studying them.
You have spoken in some interviews about spiritual growth. What did it mean to you?
Ultimately spiritual growth is about bringing the divine down to the Earth, the light and knowledge of the transcendent world, the metaphysical reality that underpins our physical universe. It is about a search for God within. It is about not constraining the psychic realm of pure potential with the type of over-simplified theological understanding of God. There is a God, I seek to know Him and serve His purpose with every expression of my soul. I seek to find ever greater light within me, and to share it with the world. I believe in a Nietzschean ideal of God as expressed in Zarathustra. I believe that man is somewhere between God and animal – that we can either devolve into savages, and revel in our own disease and filth for another thousand year dark age, or we will seize upon our greater nature and navigate a path through this predicament and into the light of a new dawn for all of humanity. There is no third path.
What kind of things and values Jewish globalist banker George Soros represent in your worldview? Does he more generally represent Jewish thinking or is he just an exception?
My attitude towards the Jewish question has changed quite a bit over the years. I used to see the mindset of Jewish actors like Soros as indicative of the Jewish people as a whole. I no longer do. I have simply spoken with far too many Jews to see them as a monolithic force. Many of them fight against what they see as a threat to their future in nationalist movements. They are a global diaspora and are therefore more inclined to globalism. But they exist in our world, and we exist in theirs. We are best advised to make peace, to extend olive branches towards them, and to educate as many of them as possible on the destructive force that is cultural Marxism.
In general, what is your attitude to Jewish power and anti-Semitism today? You told in Punk Planet magazine that the criticisms of white nationalists on the Jews are based on odd information:” (…)”How is this possible when Jews make up only two percent of the population blah blah blah…”. You never go and find out for yourself whether any of this is true, because you’re in a circle of people where everyone is reaffirming this idea. You filter out anything that doesn’t fit.” Yes, you have a point but do you still think that a criticism on the Jews is unjustified? For example, have you read about Professor Kevin McDonald’s three-part series where he analyzes Judaism and Jewish culture from the angle of evolutionist psychology?
I am familiar with McDonald’s Culture of Critique, and he makes accurate points regarding the outsider nature of Judaism, and how they have championed controversial movements and ideas over the centuries. They see themselves as a family, a tribe, and their culture of struggle to survive throughout the ages has turned them into a very unique people. Nietzsche said “The Jews are the most fateful nation in world history because faced with the prospect of whether to be or not to be, they chose to be with a perfectly uncanny conviction.”
Jewish opponents see their qualities and ethnic traits as being part of their biology, as a survival strategy; that they want to dull the instincts of the gentiles. But they truly champion these ideas. They have transgendered rabbis in Reform synagogues. Many of them are leftists. They very much live what they preach in this regard, they are not just adopting ideas to weaken the host nations where they reside as McDonald would assert; they believe in these ideas in a deep-seated way. But there are also many right-wing conservative Jews, who believe that the Reform Jews are a bunch of crazy left-wingers. Israeli politics is a constant internal struggle with conflicts between left and right.
Also, the worldwide left wing has quite emphatically turned its back on Israel due to the occupation. Many right wing people support Israel because it is trying to be a homogenous ethnostate, which many European nationalists want too.
If the Jews have become primarily left wing deconstructionist due to their evolutionary biology, maybe the gentiles have become biologically anti-Semitic after centuries of pogroms? Both ideas give pause for thought, but I prefer to operate on the basis that we can all communicate with one another, and that we are not irreversibly doomed to repeat the conflict of the millennia as the whole world is set afire. I believe there is a key that can unlock every door, and resolve conflicts. We can all get what we want and need and we don’t need to have a racial holy war to achieve it.
What do you think of Ecofascism and ecological issues, such as population explosion? Unabomber’s manifest is certainly familiar to you, but have you ever heard of a Finnish hardcore deep ecologist and “ecofascist” called Pentti Linkola? He has published one book in English called Can life prevail?
I take issue with those who place nature itself into a godlike position in their worldview. These ecofascists use the protection of the biosphere as justification for totalitarian control and massive population decreases, both which require mass suffering of humanity for the sake of bodies of water, forests, and wildlife. I promise you this: the universe is teeming with life, but advanced intelligent life is a rare thing. Mankind is not just an advanced form of ape. We hold a special place in the hierarchy of nature, and the civilizations that we build and uphold are our most important legacy.
All mature civilizations experience population decreases. This is a natural stage in the development of a nation. There is no need for authoritarian systems to enforce this, or even mass murder as the ecofascists would welcome. Linkola himself said “”If there were a button I could press, I would sacrifice myself without hesitating, if it meant millions of people would die.” What kind of morally bereft insanity does this man and his ilk possess to see mass death and destruction as being a solution to anything? I’m sure the misanthropists love him, as it gives them a thin veneer of virtue to hide the ugliness of their ethically bankrupt worldview.
The answer that Western governments provide is that we need mass immigration to correct the population declines. They never really explain why, mumbling something about needing more labourers to pay for an aging population. But with the coming age of robotics, there is no shortage of labourers. And as we have just seen announced in Sweden, where they are delaying the age of retirement to cover the costs of immigration, the opposite effect will occur, where the native population will be milked for every drop of productivity to fund their own replacement.
Instead, just allowing the natural decline in population to occur, will result in greater systems of efficiency, reduced real estate prices, declines in pollution, higher wages, and a greater value placed on intellectual property. That doesn’t sound like such a bad thing.
The second last question. Martin Heidegger, the most prominent Continental philosopher in the last century, said in the interview in 1966, published by Der Spiegel in 1976 after his death, that ”only God can save us”. Do you see the state of the world as desperate as the great philosopher? Even the wise holy men say that we live in the time of Kali (Kali Yuga) and because of that there is no point to ”save” this fallen world. In what direction do you believe the world will go? Is there any chance for Man and Nature in his power to survive, to quote the name of Linkola’s book, Can life prevail?
There is no stopping the Kali Yuga, the disintegration has already begun, and it shall run its course the same way that Winter does before the rebirth of Spring. History is a cycle, not a linear ending. Everything that falls and dies will one day rise again. But that does not mean that the new seeds of rebirth do not have to struggle to break the shell and sprout to life. It is taught in the Vedas that there is a very short period between the end of the Kali Yuga and the beginning of the next Golden Age of humanity known as the Age of Heroes, where a small but highly active cadre of superior men and women deliver us out of darkness, and show the way to the new dawn. In this sense, only the gods can save us; the gods will assist the man burning with the mission of Providence.
But there is no point in doing nothing, waiting for the gods to help us. We must become heroes, great noble spiritual warriors of Being, and instead of wallowing in our past failures or in the apparent hopelessness of our era, to see our task as transcendent, not political. Because then even if we are to fail, and sacrifice our worldly existence for the vision of a rebirth, we still cleanse our souls of the stains of our epoch, and we achieve our individual salvation in the process.
Finally, what would you like to say to the readers of Veriyhteys?
I will leave with a quote from the Tao te Ching: “He who knows others is clever; one who knows himself is enlightened. One who conquers others is strong; one who conquers himself is power.” This is the fundamental goal of our era, to be inwardly reborn, to conquer thyself, to have no addictions – no lower forces can be allowed to rule over you. To become an Overman, one must fully master himself. Once we rise again inwardly, the outer world will fall away before us, and material forces will lose their power against this new type of man. I highly recommend attending a ten day silent meditation retreat with the Vipassana school. They have centres around the world, and the courses are donation only, based on what you can afford. www.dhamma.org.
My personal website is www.georgeburdi.com. On Twitter: @georgeburdi
(Bonus question) It is said that the main character of the movie American History X (1998) had some similarities to you when you were still involved in the movement. Rumours say you were interviewed for this movie. Were you a model for the main character of the movie?
The movie company contacted Resistance, ordered everything in our catalog, music, posters, magazines, books, patches, etc. They also got me to sign a requisition to release 3 hours of interview footage I had done with CNN. The lead actor, Ed Norton, I was told watched this footage to help create the fictional character in the movie. I had not left the movement yet when this movie was made, so any similarity in plot is merely coincidental. I did see a lot of mannerisms and phrasings I used reflected in his character, and one day I will ask Ed Norton myself.
Interview by: RL
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